Compass Entertainment Complex

Julien Patterson

0:00 Most of you know the properties in the area that we put businesses in. Those range from the office to the front porch coffee house to the bistro and a number of

0:45 Road. Thank you. And then down has Irvington Farm Road, and then the next road is an easement road that goes back to Fishers Bend. So we're talking essentially about that area, of course, the bistro and then either side of that. But we'll go into that detail as we can proceed. This is a 128 acres that we're talking about. And because we feel, as you do, about this area of the Northern Neck, the color of you so much, we wanna make sure that we, in some way, protect what is here and make allowance for stroke at the same time.

1:27 So that's what this time together is gonna be about. Let me start if you want to give me the clicker. I

1:38 wanna start from here with this particular slide. This is about something that basically has become the basis for everything that we've been thinking about. It's a book called Rule by Design. And believe it or not, it's a little bit of the bible about best practices in development in rural areas. And it's because of this book that we understand conservation so much better than we did before. There are some deliberate things that you need to be thinking and then doing to protect areas that are so important to our culture, our history, and certainly the way of life here.

2:26 That book talks about something called the Village Overlay District. And the Village Overlay District is basically a planning tool. It's it's something that is used to enhance the designs that come in on top of the existing zoning that is there. It doesn't change the zoning. It sets on top of that. And then as you can read, and I won't read each one of these for you, but I will highlight them. As a land use regulation, it it adds rules top of that that that in such a way that they don't need to change, but it also can be the basis for adding additional requirements.

3:11 So you can say, we want this area to look this way, but we want sidewalks throughout the entire area. And it may not be sidewalks. It may be, as you see, setbacks, lot sizes, gray space, etcetera. It can also be used to promote certain types of housing that fit culturally and historically with everything else that's in place. And we feel that that's important in this situation because it's a 128 acres and because our history here is so profound.

3:45 And then, also, it assures as you're very deliberate about this that you have a harmonious view of the properties that are in the area that are consistent, which means that you can maintain property values, if not increase property values, in an area where there is a Village Overlay District. You can have deliberate plans to that effect. So it's a tool that's used, and we're seeking to use that tool in a particular way. Terri I'm gonna give you some examples of what this means.

4:24 So she's gonna start by showing you what is, and then she'll mention what can be. So, Terri I'll ask you to come up there and pick the

Terri Wesselman

4:39 My mic up? Yep. Everybody can hear me. So

4:59 let's just

5:53 You know? Things have been built and, you know, and and that's what we have. So, you know, there's an average setback on Irvington of about 77 feet, though. But it's it's smaller. It's 30 feet, you know, from the road.

6:11 The next thing we did, which I think some of you may not be able to see all the colors. So I'm gonna explain some of the colors. We mapped out Irvington, you know, in terms of all the lots and the lot sizes. We call this the stained glass window because that's what it looks like. Yeah. That's There's no rhyme or reason to the roads, to the the sizes of some of the lots and where they are. The smallest one that you can see, the purple, we've got some purple lots that are less than eight acre, you know, to a lot

7:45 Irvington, there's actually 612 lots,

Julien Patterson

7:49 and 219 of

Terri Wesselman

7:51 them are vacant. So because, basically, we have 36% of the lots within Irvington better make it and, of course, no hassle. So the only about 42% actually comply with the current R 1 R two zoning that's in place. So, you know, everything, you know, that was built many years ago, you know, had nothing to do with that current zoning. Yeah. But a majority of those there's there's kind of a

8:52 Looks like it.

10:06 I

Other speaker

10:06 like your purse. So out

Terri Wesselman

10:11 of what I just showed you, we we decided to pick four colors. You know, the the saw model in a background, there's about eight different colors within Earth, and it kind of designates different sizes of lots that we have. But we chose four different colors to use as kind of a test fit from our property. And beginning with the the smallest one is a cottage lot. And you can see in some of these well, we just did some examples, can have different types of houses on there.

10:45 You know, some with attached garage or detached garage. You know? And then the next one was a medium sized lot. That's about a third and a half

11:55 So using those test fit lots, we we put it on our low property, and then here's kind of what we came up with. You can see there's lots of yellow, which are your small farm and large farm moss. There's, you the a 113 acres in total. So if you divide that by the number of lots we have, it averages to be about three quarters of an acre if you including the open green space.

12:40 So then we took it, and we put it in the state levels and to make it, you know, fill out the rest of our. So you can see, you know, the the colors that we've included, you know, basically mirrors what you you see within Irvington. The exception is we have a lot of green stuff. So, you know, within existing Irvington, the only green space we truly have is the commons area. And so what we've done is designate quite a bit of green space that'll be available for, you know, various, you know, public use.

13:18 And we set that aside, you know, as part of our worldwide development design.

13:27 That, I think, gives you a better idea of, you know, how much is green. So what we've tried to do is is, you know, maintain that that open and green space such that we basically end up with about 40% open and green space within the overall design, which is actually pretty significant, you know, considering how many acres are there.

14:18 That's planned, which requires a bunch of easements. But, you know, we've allowed an easement down, you know, the the side of the property, you know, which is basically the road to push a pit, you know, to be able to be, you know, a connecting, you know, thing to the tribe of. Within our property itself, you know, it will be very bikeable, you know, for residents so that they can actually get into town easily when they're all covered or on their bike.

14:50 Now within, you know, the proposed traffic circle. You know, one of the goals that never emerged has been to slow down the trucks. And and and one of the ways that that is successful is is actually through a traffic circle. So this is the traffic circle would be at White Fences Drive. And and in order for it to make it happen, we have to actually provide easement to the so that a lot of the circle is gonna be on the property that we own right there on the corner.

15:33 So and this has actually been, I heard, I think, You know,

17:01 garden area, and and a dog park. You know? The the land that's back there by the vineyard, which used to be the vineyard property, and as some of you all know, is a great place to run your dog. So

Other speaker

17:16 so

Terri Wesselman

17:16 that's what we envision, you know, happening with that particular parcel.

17:24 Then I'm gonna talk a little bit about the commercial property. You know, this is not 100% defined, but to help you walk you through it, you know, I start on the right hand side and where you can see that's the dread dread and the logo of that building that's there. That that is our property as well. Then across the street, you can see this is the office bistro. And one of the things we're proposing on that side of the road would be a specialty food market.

18:00 You know, something like the butcher, the baker, candlestick maker. And, you know, you know, some not not a, you know, a grocery store per se,

18:25 So and so I think pointing behind that would be, you know, actually an area that in the canopy of trees that we would like to develop as an artist village. You know, it would have little cottages, you know, for artists to, you know, you know, or any kind of craft in a business to be able to, you know, put their wares. We also would include a restroom public restroom area so that, you know, that's available. And you can see behind all that, there's a lot of parking.

19:02 You know, that's been the biggest problem within our extended off street parking. So we we certainly have the lamp to be able to do that thing. You know, running down the rest of that, we envision maybe another building that's similar to the dredge local shops. You know, that's shops with maybe apartments above. Some other retail or even a town office building. And then, you know, the florist is already there, and, you know, we're gonna kinda kinda move on down.

19:38 You can see where, you know, we're behind that. We're working on the current inn and restaurant, And everybody keeps asking the question. It's probably gonna be open in October. And then the last little thing that we envision maybe some sort of a pavilion area that, you know, similar to some of the things that happen at camp, but maybe in a different type of a venue, you know, to allow us to have some, you know, entertainment type space within the camp.

20:17 And then there, as you can see, there's the the traffic circle that's right there.

20:24 Couple pictures just to envision, you know, the we talked I talked about the,

20:57 market might look like, and then the artist village. This

21:09 overall view just gives us, you know, that sense of, okay. I showed you a whole lot of, you know, little, you know, houses, color coded, you know, and we mapped it out to to

21:54 This doesn't have to be exactly what you see it is. What we're trying to do is allow the possibility of certain things to happen in a very structured way. And we being one that protects the culture, the history, all the things that so very special to you and me. And so

Julien Patterson

22:19 Terri has highlighted that there is a you see above middle of this where the sharecrops are. You would envision that it's a public area where people stake out their area for vegetables and things of that nature. The clubhouse is centrally available as you come in on the right. The event center that Terri talked about can be whatever the town decides for it to be. But But we're just saying having our own event centers are good idea. And there's some other things here, but the Overlay Overlay District itself is basically going to preserve the town's character.

23:04 That's what the objective is. And you're gonna do that by centralizing the sense that this is our place. This is a place that has certain features and and it's set as certain standards. We feel that this is a three pronged approach. So these are the three components. B one's currently in place there in the commercial district

23:46 The village resident side of this has to do with the lots that she gave you. That was just a sample of what it could be, but the whole sense is to have four, five, you decide, standards, and then you have housing standards in those lots. Mhmm. And the bottom line is they mirror and look like the rest of the building. And then the streetscapes, which also includes open spaces, that provision is another facet of this overlay. So this is a collective of what

24:47 Here are a couple of things that you shouldn't you shouldn't leave here and not remember these things. The town has worked very hard and put a strategic, comprehensive plan in place, things that they feel represent your best interest. The Overlay District is working closely here, satisfies six of the seven goals. Six of the seven goals. And that might make you wonder, what about that seventh goal? That seventh goal has to do with coastal property, and none of our property is coastal.

25:29 So that's one. But these these are the various goals and strategies, and the only district does meet those standards. What are the benefits to Irvington? Let's be very linear about this. First and foremost, it's protecting this existing historical variant. So what we wanna do is come into alignment with what's entailed currently with all these mixed sizes of area of that. Rule by design, that's the book that I've told you is pretty much the bible of how to do this.

26:09 It's best

27:17 Okay.

27:22 Terri and I have spent well well in in excess of two years talking about this, studying it, doing homework. We've been very, very deliberate about We went out to sought the best help that we could in both Jeffrey and Mike to guide us along the way. And so when we come to you with this and give give you this presentation in brief, we're trying to give you the highlights and an understanding that allows you to be able to see the advantages of doing this.

28:01 But we also want you to know that under the residential plan, we're looking at a mirror a mirror image of the rest of the community, and that's what we call the stain glass. The commercial side of this

28:30 And this helps you do that of bringing tourism out of way in the comprehensive plan. We feel that this is a bit of a one time fighting one time in in a lifetime opportunity because one party owns all that land. And whether or the right town council

29:40 knowing a bit of the mind of some of the people, if not all the people that can't come. So they want you to hear it from us. And we think we've given it to you in a fair, objective way. I will tell you this is not like the the rumor about Compass. There was a rumor about Compass coming in all the hands of shovel in the ground, and the next thing we heard was that there would be 5,000 cars going through Irvington. That's what they told us, and certainly, that didn't happen.

30:14 We'd like to see more cars, but about 5,000 cars. So we want you to hear that directly from us. With that said, we're gonna transition into a question and answer session.

Jeffrey

31:18 Good evening, everyone. Good evening. Alright. We appreciate all of you coming out. We're do this as best we can. We have a lot of people. We may have a lot of questions. I would like to set a little fairness rules. You may have multiple questions. When you raise your hand, I'm gonna ask you to ask one. That gives everybody else here an opportunity to be heard because somebody may have your second question. Somebody else may have the third question.

31:50 And that gives them an opportunity to have a piece. And when we're done with going through the first questions, we'll come back around, and you can raise your hand again. And we may not have asked your fourth question. So please ask your fourth question. And we'll keep going until the process ends here. We're gonna try and do it this way. This is how my job is to host these kinds of meetings. And what I find works best is I come up, I hear from you, and then I will enunciate the questions so everybody here.

32:23 And then we will answer as best we can. So I'd like to start to make this orderly. I'm gonna walk to the end of the room. And as I go back, we'll take questions. That way, you know that if I'm coming to you, you can raise your hand. I don't want people in the back of the room raising their hand for thirty minutes. Fair? Cool. Let's start. Questions?

Other speaker

32:51 Yes, sir. Can we get a copy of this? Is there some way you can sign up to get a copy of this presentation?

Jeffrey

32:59 Yep. We can do that.

Julien Patterson

33:01 Yeah.

Other speaker

33:02 Can I repeat the question? Question

Jeffrey

33:04 was you gotta do that for me. Question was, is there a place that you can sign up and get this information? We will have some information where you can sign in your information, where you can put down your information and sign up to have that when you leave. Well, there's a bar out there. Look for Yep. A table or something with a piece of paper. I'll be standing there. We'll get your information. When you sign, when you put your information down, please make sure you print immediately.

33:36 Mhmm. We have to then send it. We do this all the time. Our inability to deliver is all predicated on how quickly you wrote your email address. Yeah. Sir?

Julien Patterson

33:50 Yes,

Other speaker

33:50 sir. Your last line at the town council planning commission is all set. What is your end state? An expected end state timeline. Great question. 80%, you know, 50%. Great

Jeffrey

34:03 question. The question is timeline. If the town council approves the overlay, how long will this take?

34:15 Any estimates? I have my eyes, but of it. Julien Patterson.

Julien Patterson

34:40 Function of steps, and it will occur over time. There's engineering, as Terri is whispering to me, that would need to be done, and some understanding with the town about the the whole process. But it will be a deliberate process that we would engage in a very practical way. We wouldn't let it, like, labor. So

Jeffrey

35:04 as I mentioned, this is my job, and I'll give you a little bit more direct answer if that's okay. This doesn't happen fast.

35:17 It takes us... After we do approval by a governing body, they can take us anywhere from a year to two years to get plans approved. Then we have to do the infrastructure work. We have to put in a road. We have to put in a sidewalk. This is any project in anywhere in Virginia what we have to do. That takes another year to two years. While we're putting in some of that infrastructure, housing can come up. How fast the housing comes up depends on the market.

35:52 What's the demand? I think there are a lot of people in this room that knows the market a lot better than I do, but it's gonna take a while. You have something that's very rare in my industry, A landowner with patience, a landowner willing to invest in the community. We can have conversations as to whether this is the right vision. Totally fair. But most of the projects we're working on, people are moving pretty quick to get through a project because they have a bank on the backside.

36:33 Here, we have a long term landowner who is trying to envision something in the future.

36:42 That's what I can do. Question.

Other speaker

36:45 Sir?

Jeffrey

36:46 How will we handle sewer and water? Great questions. How will we handle sewer and water? May I take that real quick? Sewer and water. How are we gonna bring sewer and water to the project? That's a problem. That's one of the reasons I'm not sitting here telling you I can put the shovel in the ground tomorrow and do this. As you know, probably, you would kill... If we if we want sewer, we have to bring it from the kill market. If we want sewer, we have to provide it locally within our project using engineered systems.

37:27 There are different options that we can use. Use. We don't know. We have to solve that within that period of time before anything is done. Those are the those are the those are the items we have to fix or address before we can put that shovel in ground. But the question is, to me, when it comes, when we can put sewer or water in, what do you want it to look like? I do a lot of traditional subdivisions. I think Terri called it cookie cutter.

38:11 I don't think that's what you want. And this is an opportunity to put the control in place upfront and say, this is what we want our community to look at... Look like. I call it Irvington 2.0. What do you want it to look like? And then when it comes, it has to fit that requirement. When the sewer and the water come, it has to fit that requirement. Hope they did the best they could.

39:04 So the question was, how many people from the community were a part of the visioning and the the planning? That's why we're here. I'm having this this meeting. I'm not sure, Terri or Julien can can correct me if I'm wrong. But generally, in Virginia, we favor property rights. The individual has a right to use the property as they see fit. So part of the process when we come and ask to do something different with the property is to engage in the public and have a public dialogue and have a public process.

39:40 I would be out of the job if we could just snap our fingers and build what we want like we used to be able to.

39:49 I'm not voting for that. But this is the process. This is the vision for the problem. This is this is what we're here to talk about.

Other speaker

40:01 Has been contacted about this? Do they know what might be coming along down the line? Because, you know, we have a five. We don't have a public. So I'm just curious if Aqua has been notified or if you've talked to them. So the question is, has Aqua Virginia

Jeffrey

40:20 been notified about this project? Have we talked to them?

40:25 I am I am familiar with Aqua Virginia. I have projects and clients who contract with, and it's amazing how fast they know to start talking up, to start knocking on the door of landowners about buying their lawn. So I'll let Terri answer. I'm not a part of those conversations, but they are pretty good at knocking on doors. God. We've met with. We were.

41:00 I'm gonna start coming back again. Certainly. And then we'll start, and then we'll be back. Can

Other speaker

41:04 you can you talk a little bit about the market analysis and about the timeline, how it is it's connected with your plans?

41:16 So

Jeffrey

41:17 I'm gonna answer you best I can. I don't think you have a landowner who's like my typical client who's looking at a market analysis, who has to take it to a bank and say, hey. I can sell. I need to sell within a certain amount of pace in order to get my money back. Again, this is step one for us in a process that's not our typical or what I'm used to in development. You have a landowner who's saying, I have a large piece of property that I wanna do something good with.

41:53 Let me get the control in place. Let's have that stay in glass, and then we'll figure out how we're gonna develop the property within those controls. So we're going from that perspective. Sir?

Other speaker

42:10 Talking about that control, you're talking about Irvington today relies heavily on the COP process. Every single change, every single building has to go through an individual approval step with public hearing everything. The controls you're talking about of this plan, right, allows a lot of lenient to the owner. It's basically a one time approval. Can you talk about ideas of governance? Like, how will the town be able to be involved after it has been approved once?

42:41 Because there is no more cut process. So talk to me about, like, the governance process of individual decisions overall. So

Jeffrey

42:49 the question is in the town, the characterization will tell you whether it's right or not. You can't do anything with your property unless you get a cut. You can't, I guess, build a new building. Right. And you have to go through the public process. And his point is, hey. It sounds like this property doesn't have to go through the cut process as we're doing building by building. Conditional use permit. Yep. That's true. That's what we're putting forward.

43:19 It's a dialogue with you. It's a dialogue with your planning commission. It's a dialogue with your board with your city town council? I don't know.

43:30 What I do know is I'm biased. I do this job because I think property owners should be able to do something with their property within a framework without having to go and ask for permission every time they do something. When you do development like this and you establish the controls up front, the world it doesn't end there. You still have this the site plan of subdivision controls that takes another twelve to twenty four months to get through. So there is more review and planning at the below the zoning level.

44:08 But, yes, we are asking to proceed without a conditional use permit for every single home.

44:42 Question is, can you sum the correct assumption that we have to do a development of this size in phases? You do. Market is going to drive how much of that you can develop at a time. And so I'm gonna ask Terri or Julien or John, have you given any thought to what your basis would be? So, again, I don't want you to take this as somebody saying, hey. I haven't thought this through. But it's somebody who's saying, let's put the controls in place first.

45:15 My normal client would come in and say, here are the phases. Mister Geiger, this is all the steps we're gonna take. Can you get me the approvals that we need to achieve our goals? Here, the goal is, can we get controls in place, put it in place, and then we will develop and work our land up into it. This is phase one. This this process is phase one. Right? Yeah. It's another way to look at it is you when I hear when I hear phasing, one of the things that we will do is we'll put our plans in place, and then we will do 10 homes and then another 10.

45:54 That's what I'm thinking in terms of what you mean by phasing. Why? Mean of that. Yeah. We're

Other speaker

45:59 just it's designed and construction, all that, but there's it's a bigger world. Right? We're talking an overlay district. It's very conceptual. It's very policy and high level. So So

Jeffrey

46:13 we're gonna details in there. Ma'am, another gentleman's glass. There

Other speaker

46:17 are a lot of realtors in here, and they probably a lot better at answering this. Is there a need for that amount of housing?

Jeffrey

46:38 So that's our risk.

46:45 Nothing gets if there's no demand, if somebody's not gonna buy something, then you don't build it. We can put the zoning in place. We can ask for this overlay district, and nothing materializes. I'm standing in a vision. I'm not sure people thought that this vision that we're you're sitting in, I'm standing in, was gonna work. I'll tell you. I'll tell you. My first time coming here. I said, wow. Pretty darn cool. Maybe you like it. Maybe you don't.

47:33 Maybe you're not, like, don't like the vision that we're proposing. That's fine. But we think that with smart planning, instead of just having the market drive whatever the market wants, with smart planning and the smart zoning ordinance, we can control and make sure the outcome mirrors what Irvington looks like today. Because otherwise, you might see me in five years. Yeah. I'm gonna like what I'm bringing. Sir?

Other speaker

48:03 If this is fully realized, how do you assess what effect this might have on local traffic pattern?

Jeffrey

48:12 Good question. So the question is, how do we assess what impact these homes would have on local traffic patterns? That is done by VDOT. So we will go through a VDOT review. As you do these as you do this overlay, VDOT would have an input. And then as you go through the plans process, would have input. As you within the town, the town owns the roads. The town will have its consultants look at it as well and make those determinations. As you can see, there was some thought already, some input going in already in terms of traffic control using the roundabout and using the roundabout to get people in and out of the intersection in a more efficient and safe manner.

49:08 Sir? And then I'll go to glasses on top and then back to blue. Along the same

50:26 So the question is, have you thought about the number of cars that are generated, number of vehicles that are generated by the new homes? Sure. We have.

50:42 Any new home that gets built, whether it's in this project or anywhere, is gonna generate the same type of cars. They're not all gonna show up at once. They'll show up over time. And our roads are designed to handle a certain amount of capacity, and that is monitored by VDOT. And so as VDOT takes a look at things, they can decide, are there improvements that need to be made in order to operate world efficiently. The gentleman thought that he was from Fredericksburg on Route 3.

51:15 If you've driven in Fredericksburg, driven along Route 3, I would ask that you consider whether that is what we're proposing.

51:27 Right. Right. We could have gone bigger, more housing, but that would not reflect the stained glass that Irvington is. Most of my clients would not take this approach. We would be coming in here talking about 6,000 square foot lots and just go whoosh. Let's

52:12 And the gentleman is saying that they had two lane roads and four lane roads and six lane roads, and they had 1,000, 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 people coming, that's not Irvington. That is not what we want. We want to put the controls in place so that, again, if you will allow me, call it Irvington two 0.0, mirrors Irvington, the the historic Irvington design that did not come out of zoning. It just came out of natural smart development. I I had I had we'll move the glasses on the head, then I'll come to blue, and then I'll come over to

53:22 So the question is, will I think you said Hills 0.25. Something Hills 0.25. Yeah. Great. So an experience in Hills 0.25 is that when you come in and buy a house, you have to pick from a certain plan and a certain house look. And I use the same house plan. Over and over and over again. Yes. K. And then the question is, from that experience, are we going to do the same thing?

54:01 K. I got my answer. Julien said, look. At the end of the day, we're gonna have a good conversation with the town about what it's gonna be. K? Now my dear friend up there answered the best he could, but he didn't answer your question. So I'm gonna try and answer your question. Yep. Yep. Right. Right. My friends up there my friends up there are not homebuilders. Mhmm.

Other speaker

54:31 They are not But he knows what he wants to have said. A set. That's right. Oh, yes. Mhmm. And

54:36 they have, like, Right. What

Jeffrey

54:39 I do know is that I don't have home builders up there. I do have people who are civically minded and are interested in a vision. And we can control when I say we, Julien and Terri they're create the lots. They create the horizontal construction. And when we do that, there might be people who you may live in this order. I don't know. There's probably an association, homeowner association, that has an ARB, a control over what you can build. And so I'm assuming they would do the same thing here.

55:14 I I can't speak to that. I don't think that decision has been made. I I don't want to give you an answer that turns out to be false. And you're asking me, is there one contractor that will build it? I cannot give you that assurance. But I do wanna say they are not homebuilders who are looking to do the same house or the same house or the same house. I think you saw a slide up there that had pictures up there that were not the same. And so the mechanism by which they tell the homebuilder what to do is that association document, that architectural control, ensure in terms of what can be done.

55:55 And so that's the best answer I can give you.

56:00 Who is their target market age and value of the home and the residential home? What what is their target market? Any insights on target market? Question is what are our target markets? I don't think we have them. Yeah. Again. Everybody. Yeah. We we always have. Nick. Over here. Nick. I I you know, it's about where I was gonna go.

56:41 I think

Other speaker

56:43 I'm pushing down the average a lot. So This it's

Jeffrey

56:49 a it's a opportunity for anybody to buy a lot. It it is. There might be some people here who own a house in Irvington as their second home. And then it could be the same thing here. Could be a business owner who who is one of the business owners that we attract to the commercial area. They may need a home. We may have employees who work for that biz that new business that needs a home. So at the end of the day, we're just looking for more opportunity to create and expand that downtown historic Irvington to provide more economic benefit to the county, to the town, and then at the same time, provide housing for people who work there or who want to visit.

57:44 I don't know what the check my office. You're asking us to get an

58:03 So the question is, what if what if the town council doesn't approve this? What happens What if they do approve it? Does it go into somebody else's hands? Yeah. It could. I think I think you have you have think you have a landowner who's interested in seeing this out through the vision of what they have presented to you, but it's zoning. The zoning that's on your property runs to the next landowner. That's just the way it works. It's a property right that transfers with the property.

58:52 And so I can't I'm I'm always scared of the what if because it's a way of a gotcha question. But at the end of the day, I have to answer you honestly, like, yeah. Like, that's when we sell if we create a lot, the zoning then transfers to the lot owner. If we create the zoning and we sell a business, some some land that goes to the business to business owner, it goes to business owners. That's that's what that's what zoning is. That that's why we're here having the conversation.

59:22 So

Other speaker

59:22 a lot of plans that you have in place actually can go forward forward without any further action under typical building code

Jeffrey

59:33 and permissions? The property is currently zoned. It can be built. Terri showed you the slide. Terri can you help me? It's R 2 R 1 today. Ours

Terri Wesselman

59:46 is all R 2. R 2? Two

Jeffrey

59:49 acre lots? Yeah. So we can do two acre lots. Just sit there and just go. I'm gonna I'm gonna pick up on something that I heard that might not be what I like, so I'm gonna use it. I can just put the same house over again. I say, now, say, now, say, now, say, now, think at the end of day, if we did it, we would be selling two acre lots, and people would then build their own house on it with with no other controls or or anything like that. It would just be whatever they want.

1:00:45 Julien and Terri have you decided the question we're being asked is, have you decided that you will only sell a finished house on a lot, or will you give an opportunity to buy a lot and then the homeowner builds the house from there, hires some contractor? Has

Julien Patterson

1:01:04 that been decided? It's not been decided. Not

Jeffrey

1:01:07 not been decided. It's an option. I can't again, just the forthright. You could you could they could all be sold that way, or we could sell all the lots to a home builder. But at the end of the day, what what you would have is anybody would have to create the homes within the constraints of the Overlay District, the zoning that's in place.

1:02:12 So the the question statement was that this may not be the ideal vision that everybody could get behind. Sounded like the place we're standing today may have had the same characterization. But the other question was, you know, what is the Renaissance group, and will they own the land long term? What percentage of the property will they own long term in the lease versus private ownership? Have you considered well, before let me let me try a stab at that because I I wanna make sure we refine the question the correct way.

1:02:48 So anything that we create as a lot will then get sold. So all residential homes will get sold sold to a home buyer such that Renaissance no longer owns it. Oh, open space. Terri talked about open space, 30 to 40%. That goes into the homeowners association for the of which the block owners are members. I think I heard those quarter because of homeowners association. So so so they will then own that land. So then at that point, we're down to the commercial.

1:03:28 Fair? It's

Julien Patterson

1:03:30 the

Jeffrey

1:03:30 first time here. Do you have any thoughts on long term ownership for the commercial land behind Renaissance? Talking about the nature. Actually my

Terri Wesselman

1:03:42 mic is on or not. Renaissance actually doesn't even know the North Carolina. That that was purchased to at least fifteen more years

1:04:09 different

Jeffrey

1:04:10 so Renaissance is kind of the the the company that's doing the visioning here, and then a different LLC owns the a different company owns the commercial land that we're talking about. And so in commercial world, that land generally stays within one ownership unless you decide, hey. Maybe you wanna get into a business and you wanna operate it there. And then you want to own the building that you're gonna build for your business and the land underneath, you as the business owner could own it.

1:04:39 Otherwise, it does become a you as the business owner are a tenant, a and landowner owns it. Long term? Yeah. Let's not let's be let's have a good conversation. Yeah. We trade and sell commercial property all the time. And so over time, that area could be sold to somebody else. But the zoning doesn't change. The controls are still there. They just move to the next person. Sir?

Other speaker

1:05:12 I have a positive question not to be negative. Sir, I noticed one thing that looks like only one entry is that the traffic switch. Is there any way you can access a back door to Room 3 or another way so not everything is coming in one way and going up, I think that's something that needs to be addressed.

Jeffrey

1:05:30 Julien Terri John, question is, is it only one entrance, or can we get out to 3 via another direction?

Terri Wesselman

1:05:41 So 200, you're not we got three, and then one year. One entrance going into the traffic circle. Are

Jeffrey

1:05:50 there more entrances that are being planned other than where the traffic circle is? Okay. There's already

Terri Wesselman

1:05:55 another entrance

1:06:53 after they have been standing. Anybody's some

Jeffrey

1:06:56 outside and wants to see if we have some more seats over here on the left?

1:07:03 Alright. So the question is, you know, what is the what is the construction impact? Noise?

1:07:13 How many vehicles will be out there? John, do you have any help

1:08:03 So the gentleman also asked, you know, my expertise. You know, take that line. Can I give you one other thought to build on what John said? When I see these types of communities get built, I've gotta do two things up front. I gotta put in my storm water controls. Most of Irvington was constructed before storm water loss. In 2012, we put in some very strict storm water loss that in 2024 fully kicked in. Oh, sorry. 2022 fully kicked in, and anything you're developing after 2022 must fully comply with the stormwater laws mandated by state of Virginia in compliance with the Chesapeake Bay Act.

1:08:49 So I gotta have some trucks out there to make sure I'm meeting my storm water laws. And then I have to have trucks out there for the road. Once I've taken care of that, my experience is they're not gonna develop all the property at once, but they will do it in phases. And then you'll have your trucks out there to do smaller sections. They'll then leave, will then sell. So those big trucks you were asking about will then leave. We will have smaller trucks come in to the trades.

1:09:21 The trades will then build the houses. They can operate in medium sized maintenance or pickup trucks. And then once we're ready to do the next phase, those bigger trucks will come back, do the work, and then leave. That's the best answer I can give you. Yeah.

1:09:56 We have to have wash stations and have construction entrance. We rip them off. We wash them down, and we not that's something that's required by the industry. Yes, sir. Has there

Other speaker

1:10:06 been time to think about what might be required for traditional above ground utilities like electricity and Internet, would that be would those be placed ahead of time as part of the infrastructure underground, or would they be above ground, or is it just yet to be decided? Question

Jeffrey

1:10:27 is, are utilities? So electric, cable, Internet, are they placed above ground or below ground? Did I get that right?

1:10:39 So we've met with Dominion, it

1:11:12 I'll come back. I promise I will walk backwards. I just I yes, sir. As

Other speaker

1:11:23 a person on a retired on a fixed income, what's gonna what's this gonna cost? How much is it gonna cost for me? I'm thinking unless you

Jeffrey

1:12:39 So the question is, what are the impacts on existing emergency services? So, yeah, a house somebody who lives in a house may need emergency services, fire, ambulance, police. Yes. They will be more services needed because there are more homes Yeah. Flip side, you're adding more taxpayers. So the taxpayers are then paying in and providing the, I will say, offsetting cost for those additional services, same way that the current residents provide revenue for those services.

1:13:24 And then then you you you there are people who are much smarter in the town's budget than I am who could give you a much more specific answer. Jeff,

Julien Patterson

1:13:38 there's one more can I Sorry, John? So for the fire,

Jeffrey

1:14:05 Alright. So John just answered a little bit better than I did. So we you will get more fire hydrants because Irvington was developed before we had a fire code. And so the fire code in Virginia requires a certain amount of fire hydrants, one every 500 feet, something like that. And so as we have more access to

1:15:05 So the comment is if we have an HOA as a part of Irvington two point o, if I recall that, it will have two different governance. And because there's two different governance, it could be separate from or different from historic Irvington. We could develop without an HOA, But I just wanna let you know the way we view things is when I put it in h when we put an HOA into place, it create creates more control over how the land is used and its private governance.

1:15:44 And so we think that's a better outcome for Irvington Two Point O than what is currently in place. You can disagree, and that's fine. If you're we still have to comply with the laws of Irvington. The town council still has governance. It's just we create a little organization underneath. And if you're a homeowner within that Irvington 2.0 and you wanna do something different, put in a fence, put in a screened in porch, you have to come and ask the ARB for permission.

1:16:19 There will be homeowner association dues. There will be a budget. Those those homeowners will levy a pay a levy into the HOA. And instead of Irvington maintaining the common area, the HOA will maintain. So it's it's it's just a little bit different way of thinking about it with more control exercise on the lot owners than currently within Irvington. And

Other speaker

1:16:49 so that I think we're creating a separate community within Irvington. Yes. It doesn't do it's building this subdivision. Yes.

Jeffrey

1:16:58 We are creating a a subdivision, a separate community. Is a fair deal? It's for a. The best I can do for you, sir, is we can design it in that way. And what we're really trying to do is come up with lot sizes and a variety of lot sizes that match the historical development pattern so that as you come in and you see the development pattern, it looks familiar. But but when you get into the private governance, that'll be a different thing.

Other speaker

1:17:32 I

Jeffrey

1:17:37 may not make be able to make you happy with my answers, but we that is not something we wanna do. I have one lady in the back who would like to ask a question. I'll come back up to you. Yes, ma'am.

1:18:48 Yep. So the question is, if we're gonna add a 150 new homes, where is the next grocery store? Next vet? Where's the next business to support them? A lot of vet, Yes. So it it's an putting more on this on Kilmarnock, Irvington kind of infrastructure in place. Correct? Yep. Yeah. I'm I'm not gonna yeah. You're right. That's what happens.

1:19:32 So so

1:19:38 we have this conversation a lot. We would love to have businesses that build first and trust that the people and the consumers will come later. Okay? Unfortunately, that's just not how it works. We generally will build up residential, and then the next vet comes in because there's more demand than supply. And so the next vet comes. I am not going to pretend that I can bring you another grocery store with a 157 homes. You may want to know this. You may not tune me out.

1:20:23 But when you have these businesses come in, they look for income within the circle. It's a one mile radius, three mile radius, five mile radius. And they look to see how much income is there to support their business. They do have to pay the bank back for the building they just built. They do have to pay the landlord. And so when we start... Again, people don't like it when I share this, but when we start adding more concentrated growth within a particular area, it then makes it easier for businesses to say, I want to place a...

1:21:00 I wanna invest here too because I know I'm gonna get paid back. And that's just... That's why we come to you very often with residential first and then the commercial follows.

1:21:15 Alright. Let me see if I did my math right. How do you I

1:21:48 prevent a mobile home park from showing up? The zoning. Okay. The zoning would because we would only be allowing single family detached homes. I apologize. I have not studied this portion of the Irvington zoning ordinance, but I'm going to make an assumption. There are people here in the room who are gonna tell me whether they're right or wrong, but that mobile home is a different use category. And we are not allowing that use category. So the overlay Yes.

1:22:24 Single family detached. We we refer to the

1:22:43 Don't go home. Yeah. That's a good point. Sometimes people are concerned, hey.

1:22:56 I drive... I was out in for the holiday weekend. And coming back, there's a business in in the state called Clayton Homes. They they do manufactured homes. They're not mobile homes. They're not on a trailer, but it's premanufactured. And people even don't want that. They're like, nope. Can't drop that. I can't stop that other than by the HOA saying you can't do a pre... Prefect. So that's... To the gentleman's question about the secondary level control that's below zoning, we would do that through the HOA.

1:23:27 We we would want high quality hearing. Alright. Ma'am, then I'm going back to the top and work it down. Focus on them. Know it's in here, and then I'll work this in. You can only ask one question. Let me a meds first. Uh-oh.

1:24:18 That that that 30% would not just be recreational facilities, classes, classes, event spaces,

Other speaker

1:24:27 that that would be green spaces that we, in Irvington, so far, really enjoyed having. Yes. Then it was surprising to hear that there are no ideas how waste water would be managed, whether it's sewer or

1:25:30 now

1:25:35 my

1:25:36 question is probably you and to Terri and Julien

1:25:42 you know, because we love Irvington so much, and you've done so much good to the area. Like, you love what you do. This, though, is a little bit scary. And just the question, if this doesn't go through, if there is public resistance, if the town council doesn't approve it, would you, good doers, consider a little bit different approach to these slots? Because one of the largest remaining undeveloped areas around Turbankton, would you consider permanently protecting a substantial

Jeffrey

1:26:52 that's a a good I appreciate the comments and then the question. So I'm gonna go reverse.

Julien Patterson

1:27:03 Sure.

1:27:06 The

Jeffrey

1:27:07 town council says no. Conservation easement, sure can be done. The benefit goes to Julien and Terri in former tax credits. Your current tax basis goes down because it's not worth anything anymore. You could try and do half of it in conservation, the other half being not conservation of houses, like you said. Probably not gonna happen because the amount of development that would be required to put into place for just those two homes might not be more expensive than the lower number of homes.

1:27:48 Just being honest.

1:28:17 They've taken a risk to come here and say going to the dentist. We wanna do something different. And you agree with it, or you can't or you don't have to. And if the answer is no, they'll do something else. Like, something will happen with the property.

1:28:33 Sewer. The comment was you're disappointed we haven't thought through it. I apologize if my answer made you think we hadn't thought through it. We have options, and I was trying to express that there are options. And I want you to know nothing can happen on the we get the zoning in place. Nothing can can happen until we have a solution there. And so that would be something that we work through. Traffic calling. Around about one of the best ways to slow people down.

1:29:09 I don't know if you guys are familiar. The Virginia Department of Transportation now loves them. So what's one way we will help with the new intersection control through VDON, the roundabout provides that opportunity to slow vehicles down. Yes. There will be more cars than today. 100%. The last thing I let's see. We talked about open space. The picture up here, like, we do have yards. And so I I do think this is a fair representation of what you're gonna see.

1:29:50 Most of what you're seeing here is that uniqueness of using very lot sizes throughout the community in order to increase and decrease yards where between homes. And so you're actually seeing more of that green space than you would in a traditional subdivision. Lastly, the common area. Just know, yes, that the the language does allow us to do green space. We want to do a lot of green space, grass, native veg native vegetation. But then we also can provide some amenities, like the clubhouse, the pool, and the garden in addition to that.

1:30:37 It it doesn't all have to be improved.

1:30:45 I would suggest that you take a little time and look at the Irvington Town comprehensive

Julien Patterson

1:30:52 They are actually trying to do things that make the town more livable and attractive, which means they'll bring more tourists. So although it may seem like there were too many tourists around last week, more tourists will come. The Lancaster County has developed their 2035 plan. I was one of the circle people who was a part of creating that 2035 plan for Lancaster County. Lancaster County understands that we have a maturing population. You'd be absolutely amazed at how many of our residents are well over 60.

1:31:40 That's compounded by the fact that we don't keep most of our young people here after they graduate from high school. So for that reason, the county itself is in unison, and they approved when was that, Jimmy, they approved that plan? Probably four years ago. Okay. They approved the plan to attract more young people who are first time home buyers. They want to have more activities that increase tourism. And so all of this is going on around you, but the 2035 plan for the county is on the line, and you can look at it.

1:32:23 It means that the county will continue to grow. And whether or not Terri Wesselman or not, not, Irvington Irvington will will continue continue to to grow. Grow. Whether We would just like to make sure that there are some parameters in place to limit that. But if you check the twenty thirty five plan online online for the county, you'll find that to be true. Regarding the supermarket, there's one supermarket in particular that would love to have a lot more business.

1:32:54 If we have to support our local businesses, and I do that for a fact for this one. Anything else?

Other speaker

1:33:30 Yeah.

1:33:36 Please keep in mind, we're we're talking about a project that takes time. I hope no one thinks that a 150 homes are gonna be sold overnight.

Julien Patterson

1:33:48 Yeah. I have to look at the closest example, which is here's those quarters. And whether you like those quarters or not, there's a time when it became a bit big dormant. They have plenty of lots available, and it sat there. And it sat there. And then, fortunately, the right person came along and started the the right process so that it started to grow again. And the property values of those people in that in Hillsborough those were protected because of that initial.

1:34:20 And they turned up. This is like planting a garden in your backyard. Every day, that

Jeffrey

1:35:25 question is if there's a covenant or a law? A part of the law? The ordinance. Was Ordinance.

Other speaker

1:35:30 Sent to everyone in the body in town to say that this was going to be a requirement for new buildings. So new

Jeffrey

1:36:38 So the question is, minimum one acres in the town today, are we proposing something different? Yes. And is it still the town's position, or what's the town's current position? So, yeah, the any new build, the zoning ordinance, I think Terri can we go to the slide where we have the current zoning? Yeah.

Terri Wesselman

1:37:05 The this slide shows you how many many lots that are not even built on that are as small as an eighth of an acre. So, you know, if if it's already been subdivided, you can build one as long as you meet the setback requirements requirements that that are are also also in in place. Place. So so

Jeffrey

1:37:25 just real quick. So what so a little nuance there. Again, I'm a I am I am I am trained as a lawyer. And so the govern if you own a property that's less than one acre, subdivided valley, the government can't come in and say you can't build on it because you're not at one acre. That's called a taking. K? So regulatory taking, that's not allowed. So somebody can build on those valid lots. K? Now if they're saying, you we're not gonna allow you to create new lots smaller than one acre, 100%.

1:38:11 No problem. That's that's totally allowed. And what we're coming in and saying, hey. Would you mind reconsidering it? It? Would you mind considering this overlay district? Terri can you go to slide where you have the average lot size?

1:38:31 So the average last time, I think Terri mentioned, was about three quarters of an acre. So we are asking for an overlay that would allow us to go down a little bit on the average. So that is three quarters on the average. Yes. We have some that are smaller. You may not want them, but somebody who is in their twenties and wants to move back home could be an employee and live there. This is what the town of was trying to achieve was

1:39:30 saying, what can we do to create do do you does Irvington want one acre, one acre, one acre, one acre, one one acre, acre, one then I would love to do Or do we want something that has more variety that looks at the historical way that Irvington was created? We are putting forward a vision. We are putting forward an idea for consideration by the community, by the planning commission, by the town council. It for a defined area, not all very, very specific defined area, we can create something that looks better.

1:40:12 I'm gonna come forward. I will go blue and gold and then to you. Aqua marine. Cool. So just so just to be clear, the Village Overlay Plano

Other speaker

1:40:52 density. We want to have this more open space, more scenic. I see where this proposal, there's real tension with what folks voted on and put into the comprehensive plan less than two years ago.

1:41:39 To say, why not work within the comprehensive plan? Not not why not work within the zoning that was there and is there, you know, that you bought?

Julien Patterson

1:41:57 The property that we're talking about has been sitting vacant for almost twenty five years. When you look at the rest of Irvington, you see whether doesn't matter if you like it or not. You see this variance in all of the various houses. We're seeking to honestly approach this and very deliberately create that same duplication on those and also create open space as well as green space. The town of Irvington is 6%, not point six. So I don't know that anybody else has ever really taken the time to find out what the air Irvington look is about.

1:42:56 When I first came and started coming as a regular basis down here, I always heard him talk about the Irvington look. I said, what is that? Is it a house like that? Is it a house like this one? No one could define that. So we took the time find out. We took the time to look around and not just take pictures, but to say, what does the town really look like? Where the house is settled? And what does it really mean? And so what we're asking, yes, is different than what's in place.

1:43:31 You're correct about that. But we're doing it for a particular reason, time. To

1:43:58 Thank you.

1:44:01 I think we're say wrap up. Right. Yeah.

Other speaker

1:44:05 I got a question. The commercial subdivide division only limit as sets a floor that it's five acres, but there's no max. So, technically, this plan would allow you to build commercial on the whole land. Is there a specific reason that there's no max of commercial, or is that maybe an oversight?

Jeffrey

1:44:25 Oversight, if you would like us to add one. No problem. Can you repeat the question? Yeah. There's the the the proposed overlay says you have to have a minimum five acres of commercial. And, generally and the question was, can you make it a 100% commercial? Technically, yes. You could. And it was, hey. Will you put in a max commercial area? Sure. If you want, if that's what you want, no problem. Generally, knowledge about, you know, the more commercial that you get, the the better off people feel.

1:45:00 But if you wanna max the commercial, we can do that. We're gonna wrap up.

Other speaker

1:45:07 I would wanna like to see one thing. I don't know. You know, it's not a question. It's just a comment. I

1:45:13 do personally you know, both are are thankful that the land is in your hands. We really like what you've done personally. I like what I see residentially, although I haven't seen you do residential. So that's really the only thing in the back of my mind that I, you know, concerned about. I wanna see what happens to step two. I think you've done a great job with step one because that's really all it is. It's step one. We're here to understand the conceptual plan and the layout, and it's got a long ways to go for sure.

1:45:42 I worked in real estate capital markets before I moved back home where I grew up here. Now I'm a business owner, and we have our home here as well. So I've seen, you know, all kinds of real estate developments that I financed all over the country, from particular an airport that turned into a a mini city within Denver to small projects all over. And I don't think maybe some people just rightfully don't understand how lucky you are that this land is actually in their hands, and they're willing to to take on this vision.

1:46:13 Because I can guarantee you that it's other other families, other businesses have owned this property in the past, and Orion or Doctor Horton or, you you name another large, you know, publicly traded homebuilder. Love They to come in. There's a quick buck, and that is not what we wanna see personally here. I don't, anyway, in my backyard. I'd rather see the open space, the green space, just the aesthetics, the the tree lawns, the sidewalks. This is what makes a marathon in small towns, the ability to become more beautiful.

1:46:48 And and and the mirror image of of of Irvington and the thoughtfulness of taking on the architecture that we already have existing and going ahead and, you know, and laying that out, extending it out to what we have and really becoming, you know, more just reading into the fabric of what is already here, that's it. It really is a once in a lifetime opportunity, guys. I agree. Yeah. I completely agree with you. Yep. So

Jeffrey

1:47:14 the comment was, in case you didn't hear in the back, general support. Gentleman has been in the real estate industry, seeing landowners take a quick buck so that the big homeowner homebuilders come in and develop, and that's not the vision he's looking for. He's looking more for the rural field that this vision is trying to replicate using Irvington's existing development pattern as the basis. I'm gonna do one more. Yes, ma'am. I we clean up two roads coming into Irvington twice a year, and we picked up hundreds and hundreds of

1:48:11 our roads and our sidewalks and everything else now with another 300 people in New York in our neighborhoods. So the question is, will the new residents I'm gonna use the word destroy so that the infrastructure that's in place. Sounds like you are one of the wonderful volunteers that we see on the blue signs along the road that say, you're you're doing the cleanup along. Not up yet, but it's coming.

1:48:40 Anytime we have more residents,

Terri Wesselman

1:48:42 I mean, we we pick up a lot of garbage for the last two years. And And I'm

Jeffrey

1:48:48 what we're And I thank you. I think we all in this community thank you for your volunteerism. And we we all should be volunteering in some way to better our community. I just can't regulate. I don't think the town council can regulate human behavior. We have to live our minds in a way to provide a more positive way of living, rule following that others will hopefully follow. But there is a button. Within our Irvington two point o, we will have that private governance aspect where if people aren't following the rules, there are liens and assessments that are then put on them in order to make sure that we follow the rules.

1:49:38 So we can we can influence it within, but human behavior exists outside. Just a commercial for the team. I'm doing that. Compass

Julien Patterson

1:49:50 has been been cleaning the highways for the last, what, six and a half years on two. Wow. So we do know what you're doing. We appreciate it as well.

1:50:03 Thank

Jeffrey

1:50:04 you, everyone.